Because intelligent discussion is one of the best weapons against idiocy

[beachlass]

I've said it in a comments thread, so I'll find the courage to say it in my own journal.

I'm assuming the Warriors of Innocence instigated account and comm deletions are hitting some people that are posting unhurtful things, and have trigger words in their interests, and I'm certainly, in no way at all trying to align myself with unthinking censorship, or the like.

But.

I have a soft spot in my heart for a couple of pairings that have a bunch of shota/underage stuff posted about them. To say that it's fictional and causes no harm and that I don't have to look at it is fine up to a point. But there's some stuff out there - not a whole lot, but some - that really seems to be child pornography. There's pictures of Sasuke and Kakashi in our fandom that make me remember vividly what it was like to be molested as a child. Setting aside the harm it does to me - because I know that scanning copycock or steelandsparks might bring up something that will upset me, and I could just completely stop going to those comms (and I'm damn careful about what I open up) - setting that aside...

I still worry about what's going on when someone creates sexually explicit imagery or writing about a child and an adult. I worry about who is in the communities looking for that. And today, I'm not entirely comfortable about my own silence when I've seen that kind of stuff. Maybe I need to have some more courage about naming my discomfort to authors and creators, rather than silently turning my back and not mentioning it. Making nice. What's the cost? What, and who, have we been tolerating in communities?

Comments

[thursday-kat.livejournal.com]

well, for my two cents, shota's never really been my thing. it's not so much the age difference (I know people who are together who have quite an age gap) but definately the non-consent thing. underage non-con is just...squicky and too deviant even for my own deviant mind. because i always feel that, no matter how much an author tries to make it seem ok or consensual or desired even, i can't help thinking how wrong it is.

the only stuff i read, is the stuff that points out how wrong and screwy it is (i'm thinking mostly sasuke/itachi here and a particular kakashi fic - though even here there are exceptions, namely bakhos's fic)

i have to admit though, that i'm on the fence here, with the whole thing. on the fence b/c, while i agree shota is bad, i more concerned about those who glorify it (both on non-fandom and fandom lj's) than those who write a more realistic approach. and this whole deletion thing is across the board. and of course, i understand that too, as how can they possibly know, without searching every journal out there that has potentially harmful stuff in it. this is my life, always on the fence, rather an uncomfortable place to be.

and can't really say much about the 'cest stuff, as i both read and write it. it is a kink, though a complete fantasy one obviously, and i've read and heard enough to know and understand (as much as i can) the utter fucked-up-ness of it. and not to leave a list of my kinks (no one needs to know that) but i'll admit to many that are "socially deviant" including but not confined to non-con, bondage, control and so forth and so on. it all comes down to lines and where they are drawn.

and if you feel the need and the desire to speak up and let people know how you feel about what they're writing, well more power to you. it all circles back around to freedom of speech and while you may never convince someone that what they write is wrong, you can at least be comfortable knowing that you said what needed to be said.

kudos for this, even if we don't completely agree, because you're right, intelligent discussion is the best weapon against idocy (and ignorance in my mind) and i love you more for saying it *hugs*

[beachlass.livejournal.com]

"underage non-con is squicky" - Absolutely. And if we're talking about kids and adults - there is no such thing as consensual. Especially adults with control over kids - which is absolutely the case when we're talking about Sasuke and Kakashi, or Ed and Roy...

It's mucky - because there are stories where someone is coming into adulthood - and that is so culturally defined, and plays into our own sexualities and stories and all kinds of stuff. And yet there's some stuff out there that really just raises all the warning flags.

Thanks for talking about it. It's hard, I find, and I'm so glad to have folks like you and the others to work at articulating this with.

[thursday-kat.livejournal.com]

it's mucky - because there are stories where someone is coming into adulthood - and that is so culturally defined, and plays into our own sexualities and stories and all kinds of stuff. And yet there's some stuff out there that really just raises all the warning flags.

this is very true. i have almost no problems reading fic about a 15 yr old and a 30 yr old unlike a fic a fic about a 6 yr old and a 30 yr old.

and man do i love me some roy mustang but i can't do ed/roy (and i've never been a fan of sasuke/kakashi)

i always come away from chats with you thinking about things i may have never thought about before. so i thank you for that :)

[beachlass.livejournal.com]

I think, sometimes, I fall into a fondness for a pairing based on one or two stories by a particular writer - it's not actually the pairing, but the writer(s) I'm fond of...

For instance, some of my favorite stories are Kakashi/Iruka - but I almost never check kakairu. But one of my favorite in progress stories is Roy/Ed.

I find talking with you really thought provoking too. Mutual admiration fest!

And, because it bears repeating - you write some of the most thoughtful porn that plays around with control and submission and trust and respect. It's sexy and makes me think. Best. Combination. Ever.

[thursday-kat.livejournal.com]

ok, i take it back, there is a particular roy/ed story you linked me to and it is yummy :)

totally with you on kakairu (did we friend over kakairu actually??? i can't remember...)

*throws chocolate coated love around to celebrate mutual admiration fest*

And, because it bears repeating - you write some of the most thoughtful porn that plays around with control and submission and trust and respect. It's sexy and makes me think. Best. Combination. Ever.

you can't understand how good that makes me feel. i'll be having warm fuzzies for weeks. *smooches* and hopefully in a few weeks you'll get some neji kimono porn...