Because intelligent discussion is one of the best weapons against idiocy

[beachlass]

I've said it in a comments thread, so I'll find the courage to say it in my own journal.

I'm assuming the Warriors of Innocence instigated account and comm deletions are hitting some people that are posting unhurtful things, and have trigger words in their interests, and I'm certainly, in no way at all trying to align myself with unthinking censorship, or the like.

But.

I have a soft spot in my heart for a couple of pairings that have a bunch of shota/underage stuff posted about them. To say that it's fictional and causes no harm and that I don't have to look at it is fine up to a point. But there's some stuff out there - not a whole lot, but some - that really seems to be child pornography. There's pictures of Sasuke and Kakashi in our fandom that make me remember vividly what it was like to be molested as a child. Setting aside the harm it does to me - because I know that scanning copycock or steelandsparks might bring up something that will upset me, and I could just completely stop going to those comms (and I'm damn careful about what I open up) - setting that aside...

I still worry about what's going on when someone creates sexually explicit imagery or writing about a child and an adult. I worry about who is in the communities looking for that. And today, I'm not entirely comfortable about my own silence when I've seen that kind of stuff. Maybe I need to have some more courage about naming my discomfort to authors and creators, rather than silently turning my back and not mentioning it. Making nice. What's the cost? What, and who, have we been tolerating in communities?

Comments

[bakkhos.livejournal.com]

Well, since zookitty brought me up, I thought I should probably say something, though I'm not quite sure what would be the most appropriate response. I think I'd fall into the category of Writers Writing the Worst of the Worst. Sometimes I even disturb myself, which is good for writers, I think.

However, I don't think this makes me a morally reprehensible person, though I appreciate your willingness to speak your mind. It does make me consider taking down my fanfic, since in the end, I'd rather not be misinterpreted as a closet criminal.

[beachlass.livejournal.com]

Well. First of all, thanks for stopping by to talk about it. I hope you know that I wouldn't have friended you in the first place if your writing gave me the really bad kind of creeps. There's lots of your Uchiha writing I haven't read - and I appreciate the clarity with which you label it.

There's certainly the "What will people think of me?" factor, which isn't limited to people writing kink or disturbing or underage stuff... for some of us, putting anything sexually explicit feels risky. And I don't think it's a clear line from "a predator got off on this" to "you're contributing to child abuse".

Do you worry about who is reading your stories? (and interesting, because I'm worrying about predators - I initially wrote 'using' rather than 'reading') My recollection (and I don't think its just anti-porn propaganda) is that pedophiles have a building cyclical pattern with child pornography and child abuse; as well as a lot of 'See, other people say it's ok' justification thinking.

Also, on a completely other subject - I think I failed to mention what a fantastic Karin you made at Anime North - great pics.

[bakkhos.livejournal.com]

I actually used to be (maybe still am?) a huge believer in the idea that the legitimization of pedophilia through online communities contributes to it by taking away the fear factor a pedophile might have in committing it. However, I never really included fandom in this category. Fandom can be disturbing at times, but predatory communities like NAMBLA (I think that's its acronym) are a hell of a lot worse.

What is interesting to *me* is knowing who my readers are (some of them anyway), a portion of whom I have met. All normal, law-abiding young women. Some are victims of incest and sexual abuse themselves. The fact that even these girls have responded positively to the Worst of the Worst is definitely food for thought. What do we make of that?

P.S. Thanks on the cosplay thing! Did you go?

....if I may put a word in edgewise... :3

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

The fact that even these girls have responded positively to the Worst of the Worst is definitely food for thought.

Truth is, your writing doesn't give me the disturbing feeling some other fics have. I don't think I can rationalize my argument here, because I'm working on gut-instinct. I don't think you write The Worst of the Worst, because I've read it and it hasn't given me that... impression of something else. It reads as something that should be read and enjoyed as fictional work, whether it's sexual or not.

Other fics, on the other hand, leave me with a vague sense of... I don't know, malignancy? Disturbedness? Depravity? and who am I to use those words anyway XD I can't quite pin it down, but it's there. Maybe this argument makes no sense, but it's the best I can do to explain it. *shrugs*

Re: ....if I may put a word in edgewise... :3

[beachlass.livejournal.com]

I think you've actually really described it well here - it's a gut instinct thing, and thus hard to describe.

[beachlass.livejournal.com]

I think fantasy is a place where we can revisit and re-form hurtful experiences, or just fantasize about boundary-crossing behaviour. Sex, power and identity are all complicated things, and mix together in complicated ways.

And I'm pretty committed to questions, and questioning rather than finding answers and putting them up on a shelf as though they are immutable. I think it is really interesting how women's sexuality plays out in fandom.

I didn't make it to Anime North - as I'm utterly bogged down in real life stuff.

[thursday-kat.livejournal.com]

i'm sorry if my bringing you up made you uncomfortable. it wasn't my intention and i usually hate to "name names" but i obviously forgot my head. you're just an exception to my rules and i love your twisty dark writing. i'd probably read anything from you.

really, really, hope i didn't offend you :/

[bakkhos.livejournal.com]

Not a problem! I just hoped you didn't include me in the category of those legitimately squicky people.

[thursday-kat.livejournal.com]

oh god no!!! you are fab *smooches*

i was just thinking about the fact that sasuke/itachi (yours in particular) is really the only pairing with shota content i read. questions to ponder on boring days at work...